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	<title>Comments on: Slovenia: when misinformation becomes institutionalised</title>
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	<description>Why not?</description>
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		<title>By: Marko</title>
		<link>http://www.markobucik.eu/slovenia-when-misinformation-becomes-institutionalised/comment-page-1/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator>Marko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markobucik.eu/?p=114#comment-1547</guid>
		<description>Hi Johnson, thanks for this comments. The fact that you focused on these 2 things makes me happy. It means that you perhaps agree with the rest.

First, Rupel&#039;s side-changing. Well, I think that he actually had to leave because he was being too atlanticist in moments when pro-US politics were running short of public support. Rupel as Foreign Minister more or less alone signed the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_letter&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Vilnius letter&quot;&lt;/a&gt; in support of American invasion of Iraq. You&#039;re right in saying that he didn&#039;t go along very well with Rop, once Drnovsek was gone. But what makes me stand behind what I said is that he quickly realized he could stay as Foreign Minister only by changing sides. Unfortuntelly, I think this was his primary motive. In addition, seeing his rhetorics and writings recently, I think he should quietly retire and write books.

Secondly, on the Yugoslav economy. Actually it&#039;s difficult to find numbers for those times. I would need to go to a decent library somewhere to dig out the relevant comparisons etc...But let it be enough to take the numbers from 1991 and compare Slovenia to Czechoslovakia, Hungary...Sorry, the standard of living was not the same. And this standard actually allowed Slovenes (living in a country with relatively open borders) to travel abroad and purchase goods. I guess you will not claim that we, yes my family did it as well, were buying goods abroad with miserable income of Yugoslavia?

Just a small remark at the end. Why should my year of birth disqualify me from commenting on matters related to the past? In general and when Yugoslavia is concerned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Johnson, thanks for this comments. The fact that you focused on these 2 things makes me happy. It means that you perhaps agree with the rest.</p>
<p>First, Rupel&#8217;s side-changing. Well, I think that he actually had to leave because he was being too atlanticist in moments when pro-US politics were running short of public support. Rupel as Foreign Minister more or less alone signed the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_letter" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Vilnius letter&#8221;</a> in support of American invasion of Iraq. You&#8217;re right in saying that he didn&#8217;t go along very well with Rop, once Drnovsek was gone. But what makes me stand behind what I said is that he quickly realized he could stay as Foreign Minister only by changing sides. Unfortuntelly, I think this was his primary motive. In addition, seeing his rhetorics and writings recently, I think he should quietly retire and write books.</p>
<p>Secondly, on the Yugoslav economy. Actually it&#8217;s difficult to find numbers for those times. I would need to go to a decent library somewhere to dig out the relevant comparisons etc&#8230;But let it be enough to take the numbers from 1991 and compare Slovenia to Czechoslovakia, Hungary&#8230;Sorry, the standard of living was not the same. And this standard actually allowed Slovenes (living in a country with relatively open borders) to travel abroad and purchase goods. I guess you will not claim that we, yes my family did it as well, were buying goods abroad with miserable income of Yugoslavia?</p>
<p>Just a small remark at the end. Why should my year of birth disqualify me from commenting on matters related to the past? In general and when Yugoslavia is concerned?</p>
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		<title>By: Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.markobucik.eu/slovenia-when-misinformation-becomes-institutionalised/comment-page-1/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markobucik.eu/?p=114#comment-1544</guid>
		<description>There are two or three things which I think they should be said here. 

First of all it is irrelevant whether Rupel was kicked out of the party or simply resigned from it. It was obvious in 2004 that back then his present party (Liberal Democrats) drastically changed its policy from a left-centrist party (implemented by Drnovsek) to a radical left-wing party (under Rop and his close group). He simply did not identify any longer with the political views of his present party, resigned and joined the party that was closer to his political beliefs. 

What is so shocking or new here, I don&#039;t know. 

Secondly I do not know where did you pick from that the Yugoslav economy was relatively well in comparison to Eastern Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia etc. The Yugoslav economy was only doing comparitively well during the short liberal era of Stane Kavcic, who soon proved to be too liberal for some hardcore aparatchiks in the Central Politburo. As you know Kavcic was quickly  and politically quite ruthlessly slained and replaced by a more obedient soldier of the revolution who unfortunately also turned up to be elected for the first president of independent Slovenia. 

As for the Yugoslav economy in 1980s, seeing you were born in 1979, I think you are probably still too young to remember gas restrictions, electricity reductions, 40% inflation (unofficially around 50%), low productivity, low investments in infrastructure (how many kilometres of motorways did Slovenia have in 1991?), large bureacratic apparatus etc.

So I think we will have to overcome some mythology that is persisting today among the younger generations about how we were doing better from the poor Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and East Germans. We were not. In fact, in 1980s many Slovenes travelled en masse to Hungary, Czechoslovakia and neighbouring countries such as Italy and Austria to purchase necessary food and clothing articles which couldn&#039;t be obtained in our shops.

The life in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia was the same. You lived a humble, low-profile and quiet life if you kept your mouth shut up. That was the whole and simple strategy of survival in those iron times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two or three things which I think they should be said here. </p>
<p>First of all it is irrelevant whether Rupel was kicked out of the party or simply resigned from it. It was obvious in 2004 that back then his present party (Liberal Democrats) drastically changed its policy from a left-centrist party (implemented by Drnovsek) to a radical left-wing party (under Rop and his close group). He simply did not identify any longer with the political views of his present party, resigned and joined the party that was closer to his political beliefs. </p>
<p>What is so shocking or new here, I don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>Secondly I do not know where did you pick from that the Yugoslav economy was relatively well in comparison to Eastern Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia etc. The Yugoslav economy was only doing comparitively well during the short liberal era of Stane Kavcic, who soon proved to be too liberal for some hardcore aparatchiks in the Central Politburo. As you know Kavcic was quickly  and politically quite ruthlessly slained and replaced by a more obedient soldier of the revolution who unfortunately also turned up to be elected for the first president of independent Slovenia. </p>
<p>As for the Yugoslav economy in 1980s, seeing you were born in 1979, I think you are probably still too young to remember gas restrictions, electricity reductions, 40% inflation (unofficially around 50%), low productivity, low investments in infrastructure (how many kilometres of motorways did Slovenia have in 1991?), large bureacratic apparatus etc.</p>
<p>So I think we will have to overcome some mythology that is persisting today among the younger generations about how we were doing better from the poor Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and East Germans. We were not. In fact, in 1980s many Slovenes travelled en masse to Hungary, Czechoslovakia and neighbouring countries such as Italy and Austria to purchase necessary food and clothing articles which couldn&#8217;t be obtained in our shops.</p>
<p>The life in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia was the same. You lived a humble, low-profile and quiet life if you kept your mouth shut up. That was the whole and simple strategy of survival in those iron times.</p>
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		<title>By: Marko</title>
		<link>http://www.markobucik.eu/slovenia-when-misinformation-becomes-institutionalised/comment-page-1/#comment-1186</link>
		<dc:creator>Marko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markobucik.eu/?p=114#comment-1186</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment Camille. It&#039;s true that Rupel says many things out of print obviously...But he seemed relatively reserved recently during the presentation of the Slovenian Presidency in Brussels. Let&#039;s see how these 6 months might change him...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Camille. It&#8217;s true that Rupel says many things out of print obviously&#8230;But he seemed relatively reserved recently during the presentation of the Slovenian Presidency in Brussels. Let&#8217;s see how these 6 months might change him&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Camille</title>
		<link>http://www.markobucik.eu/slovenia-when-misinformation-becomes-institutionalised/comment-page-1/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator>Camille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markobucik.eu/?p=114#comment-1129</guid>
		<description>I agree that this sort of article seems an odd choice for the magazine, but considering that half of the things Rupel says would come off as the ramblings of a crazy person (even to the uninformed tourist) I doubt that it will do any terrible damage. Unless-- of course-- people begin to wonder, why that crazy person is also the foreign minister...Honestly I&#039;m more worried about what he may have said OUT of print.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this sort of article seems an odd choice for the magazine, but considering that half of the things Rupel says would come off as the ramblings of a crazy person (even to the uninformed tourist) I doubt that it will do any terrible damage. Unless&#8211; of course&#8211; people begin to wonder, why that crazy person is also the foreign minister&#8230;Honestly I&#8217;m more worried about what he may have said OUT of print.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Slovenia: &#8220;When Misinformation Becomes Institutionalised&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.markobucik.eu/slovenia-when-misinformation-becomes-institutionalised/comment-page-1/#comment-1114</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Slovenia: &#8220;When Misinformation Becomes Institutionalised&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markobucik.eu/?p=114#comment-1114</guid>
		<description>[...] Bucik explains at length what kind of damage could be done by an article on Slovenian EU presidency, written by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bucik explains at length what kind of damage could be done by an article on Slovenian EU presidency, written by [...]</p>
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